• December 21, 2019 at 6:33 am#43218
    Abs & Anj
    Member
    @mutznuts1

    Hi guys and grills 😁.

    What’s the thoughts on buying a boat for 10k and spending 100k doing it up to how you want it,

    opposed to buying a boat for 100k that’s “ready” to go?

    Cheers abs

    December 21, 2019 at 10:31 am#43238
    Liz
    Admiral
    @liz-cleere

    Personally, I don’t believe any boat is ready to go, even a new one (unless built to our own spec)! But maybe you don’t need to go to the extremes you suggest. Half-way might be the solution…

    Unless you’ve had experience of living on a boat, it’s difficult to know what your priorities will be and exactly what you want from it (despite all the advice out there). Apologies if I’m stating the obvious, but living and cruising on a sailboat is very different to weekend and holiday sailing.

    If we were to buy another boat we would probably buy low and then re-fit. BUT, re-fits are not easy and can destroy even the most optimistic of us. And they always cost twice what you think they’ll cost.

    Buying a boat with half your budget, which is sea-worthy and relatively comfortable, might be the way to go. Then, after at least a year of sailing her, you’ll know what you want to do. You said you might buy in Thailand, which is a good idea as there are plenty of places to re-fit (right now). The big learning curve on this side of the world is working with the culture and not expecting “western” attitudes to time-keeping and deadlines…

     

    Peace and fair winds!

    December 21, 2019 at 11:20 am#43242
    Abs & Anj
    Member
    @mutznuts1

    Hi Liz,

    Yes we sort of saw that at the boat show, we went and had a look at a few different boats and was surprised by some of the blue water cruisers lacking in what I thought would be fundamental equipment on bwc’s IE water maker, in fairness it was an optional extra for 10k which was odd as we could have bought the exact same model for 5.5k from the manufacturer 200 yards away! Hey what did I expect from a £1m boat!

    I appreciate cruising/ living Vs caravaning is a huge difference and it’s trying to find the happy medium of creature comforts Vs practicality  especially when it entails weeks or months without access to Tesco’s or a local grocery store, I’m guessing it takes quite a while to work out what is actually needed opposed to what you think you needed.

    Our budget would be between 100-200k projected, personally I’m not afraid of getting my hands dirty which is why I’m half thinking that perhaps a decent hull is more important than a decent interior. Example of how messed up my mind is we still have not decided even remotely whether it’s a multihull mono fibre or steel, we are erring towards mono as imho I can’t see the added value of a catamaran, I get it at anchorage the general consensus is a cat as it’s a floating apartment but would I pay double the asking price on a house with a huge lounge and three pokey bedrooms or go for a decent spread out 2 bed apartment instead.

     

    December 22, 2019 at 5:16 pm#43261
    Danny Basso
    Bosun
    @danny

    I vote for the refit … the most important and difficult thing, in my opinion, is to really understand in what condition the boat we are buying is in, what jobs it will need and how much it will cost us (the same for the house, the car..) . Not everyone is able to perceive the real damage that is hidden in the bottom of the bilge … What value does a “survey” have? Can you trust it?

    D.

    Buon Vento

    December 22, 2019 at 6:43 pm#43262
    Ben van Staveren
    Bosun
    @benvanstaveren

    Personally I’d say don’t stare yourself blind on things like a water maker, they’re nice to have, but not a hard requirement to go cruising – they’re convenience items.

    On that note, no boat will ever be “ready” and to your liking. If you buy a brand new one, you’re probably still going to want to change and add things, and if you buy a used one, well, you’re still going to want to change and add things.

    As an example, the used boat we recently (well, a few months ago) bought was pretty much ready to go, but I’m spending at least another 2 months re-doing a bunch of things and adding some equipment because, well… some of it I felt was needed (proper wind instruments for example), some of it I just wanted (more solar panels), and some of it because survey said it should be done (new backstay, electric bilge pump, etc.).

    However, buying a used boat and refitting can be a lot cheaper if you do most of the work yourself. Now I’m not talking about things like Esper’s total teardown-and-rebuild type deal (unless, of course, you’re a carpenter by trade), but most things can be done on your own in a few hours, which beats paying someone a wad of cash to come do it in less time. On our boat I’m doing about 99% of the work myself right now, I’m paying someone to go up the mast to install some stuff on top though, mostly because (slightly embarassing) I’ve got a fear of heights…

    Another benefit of buying a used boat and refitting is that in my opinion, most boats built after about 2010 are very cookie cutter; they all have more or less the same lines, more or less the same interior layouts, and more or less all use the same materials. In older boats, there’s much more variety.

    Anyway. Ramble over 🙂

    December 22, 2019 at 8:36 pm#43266
    Abs & Anj
    Member
    @mutznuts1

    yes I keep going back to this option get a good hull don’t worry too much on interior/equipment,

    I am not a carpenter but not afraid to have a go at something either, we have our own businesses,whenever a refit is needed it’s me that does them £5-10k opposed to 50-100k the shop fitters want. :-\

    I think personally for us a couple of pre requisites is water maker, washer/dryer decent equipment to cook with, good battery system aka lifepo4.aircon. There’s not a huge amount that we want to take with us creature comfort side of things those are what we consider we don’t want to lose.


    @ben
    why be embarrassed I have a fear of holes trypophobia for whatever reason I see holes I feel sick…

    December 23, 2019 at 6:44 pm#43289
    Ben van Staveren
    Bosun
    @benvanstaveren

    It’s more the irony of having a fear of heights and then buying a sailboat where sooner or later, someone’s going to have to go up the mast 😀

    Given your requirements and the DIY-abilities, I’d suggest finding a decent used boat that ticks all your boxes on the looks/interior layout department, and then spending some time and elbow grease getting it to your liking. At least then you also know all the ins and outs of the entire boat, and since you’ve installed a lot of the systems yourself you also know where everything is, how it works, and more importantly how to beat it with a hammer when it doesn’t work 😀

     

     

    December 24, 2019 at 3:15 am#43312
    Michael Mechsner
    Deckhand
    @pr-michael

    My wife and I have “begun” the journey toward a cruising lifestyle and are out looking at the market. We have a “max” budget of 150k. The BEST we’ve seen so far (we live near San Francisco – so that’s our search area) is a “turnkey” ’84 Tayana 47 that has just come off a 4 year circumnavigation and is “voyage maintained” by her owners – the asking price was $129,000.00 That showed us that there are boats out there capable and within any budget. On the other end, we also found a ’74 Hans Christian 38 in fair condition (needing refit work and a compromise on live aboard – i.e. wet head with no separate shower) for $65,000.00. We are realizing that this search involves compromises depending on your budget and abilities.

    December 24, 2019 at 3:21 am#43314
    Abs & Anj
    Member
    @mutznuts1

    This is part of the quandary we are having, so basically I have seen a couple of hulls that I’m happy to completely gut and start from scratch (got between 5-10 years before it’s a reality) I can purchase them now for next to nothing however should I wait and get something a little better (what is better?)

    Ok my budget right now is 100k in 2 years it’ll be 150 in five it’ll be 300k+ however I know my budget is relative to where I’m at right now but I’d rather be at the lower rate now as it means extra years out cruising later 🙂

    December 24, 2019 at 5:18 am#43320
    Ben van Staveren
    Bosun
    @benvanstaveren

    Depends fully on what you consider “better” – tough nut to crack that one 😉

    The big difference is that 5 to 10 years from now, your budget will be larger, but does that really directly relate to getting a “better” boat? It’ll still be a used one, and while it may have more modern electronics, the difference between getting a boat now and using your remaining budget to modernise it and getting a newer boat in a few years is not that significant in that sense. What is significant is that given your 100k budget, you can get some real steals at the moment.

    For example, https://www.navyservice.com/en/listings/whitby-boat-works-ltd-whitby-42-2/ – this boat is in the same yard ours is (literally a stone throw away) and is (purely from a visual standpoint) in good condition. The interior looks like it can use a little love, and it could do with updated instruments. But purchasing this boat, and getting updated electronics fits well within your budget. Just as an example since I have no idea what exactly you are looking for 🙂

    I’m assuming your 100k budget is in pounds, so personally I’d look for a boat in a decent state of maintenance for around 50-60k – and get a survey done, of course, so add that plus a bit of travel (since you’d want to see it) and you end up around… worst case scenario, let’s be generous, 65k. You then have 35k left over – and you need to reserve some for keeping it on the hard – and the remainder can be used for refitting. And 30k pounds can go quite a ways if you don’t do a total teardown and rebuild – if you just touch up the interior and get modernised instruments you still have a decent chunk of change left over.

    Again, I have no idea what exactly you are looking for, and I don’t presume to tell you how to spend your money but I’d probably buy a boat now; you can always get it splashed and hauled out for a summer vacation in the med 🙂

    Anyway, just my 2 cents.

     

    Personally, I would look for boats ranging from “reasonable” to “good” state of maintenance for about

    December 24, 2019 at 5:37 am#43321
    Abs & Anj
    Member
    @mutznuts1

    Tbh Ben my thoughts on this are, 10k electronics 10-15 sails, 20-30k “essentials”water makers, solar, batteries, etc,t rest on hull/interior, I think that’s somewhere around realistic, I could be wrong if so please tell me as I am really a newby.

    December 24, 2019 at 11:26 am#43333
    Liz
    Admiral
    @liz-cleere

    10k electronics 10-15 sails, 20-30k “essentials”water makers, solar, batteries, etc,t rest on hull/interior,

    You might have to go a bit higher with electronics, it depends what you need (good chartplotter, AIS, radar etc). 30k should cover off most of what you list (but, bloody hell, watermakers are expensive these days!). With hindsight, I’d say that you can budget for all the pieces of equipment fairly easily, it’s the labour and hard-standing costs which can really add up…

    Peace and fair winds!

    December 26, 2019 at 12:39 am#43353
    Ben van Staveren
    Bosun
    @benvanstaveren

    Pretty much what Liz said; unfortunately electronics aren’t cheap, and if you want to do a complete overhaul, most fully integrated systems (B&G Zeus 3 with all the trimmings for example) can run you around 15k depending on how fancy you want to get. For the rest of it, looks about right – although sails are a bit of a variable cost since it depends on what kind of rig you’ve got (sloop/ketch) and where you get them from.

    But it looks like a good start for slicing up the budget 🙂

    December 27, 2019 at 9:20 pm#43374
    Abs & Anj
    Member
    @mutznuts1

    Hi all,

    The budget is pliable thankfully just means I won’t be having the jacuzzi and steam shower now :-D. Yeah sails do seem to be a bit of an issue with regards to cost, I have seen things like a parasail which are 10k on their own. Also looked at kite systems (just for fun) and wonder why if they are that good why more people are not using them, sensibly I have found no one using them on cruising boats.

    July 8, 2020 at 10:03 am#43737
    Andrew & Deb Caveney
    Spectator
    @lamou

    Is there such a thing as “ready to go” in the boating world?  If you want to do simple cruising in inland waterways with the occasional trip up the coast, then a turnkey boat will probably be OK.  However, if you want to do some serious blue water sailing to far off lands, then no matter how good the boat you buy is, it will probably need some work done to make it ready.

    Here is a link to an article in an online magazine by the famous Nigel Calder which explains this nicely.

    https://www.cruisingworld.com/how/refit-reality-check/

    My take on the subject is that even if you buy a yacht that is ready to go, you still don’t know how much life span there is in the equipment, compared to a newly refitted boat which has a much longer lifespan between refits.  Any boat will need to be refitted sooner or later.  We bought an old boat for a really cheap price (it was a deceased estate) but it did need a lot of work and have currently spent about 3 times what we actually paid for the boat and are still pumping money into it at a furious rate.  Of course it will never return the investment, but at the end of the day we will have a nice boat that we can truly call our own, and be able to take us to places.  But on the other hand, I think it was Dylan Winter of Keep Turning Left fame who said that he didn’t want to spend a year or two fettling, especially as an old man with not too many years left –  just buy a cheap piece of crap and get out there sailing.  Actually, that’s a pretty good philosophy, but it won’t get me to Fiji!

    Peace and fair winds etc

    Andrew

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